South Sudan People’s Liberation Army commander, Gen Paul Malong. Photo By Peter Mwayi 

South Sudan violence. The Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA) boss, Gen Paul Malong, had an interview with Ugandan and Kenyan journalists last week in Juba about the fighting in South Sudan and the tense relationship between President Salva Kiir and his former vice president Riek Machar that has left hundreds of people dead and thousands others displaced. Saturday Monitor’s Risdel Kasasira and Peter Mwayi bring you the excerpts.

By Risdel Kasasira and Peter Mwayi

Monday October 10 2016

Q: What has changed since fighting broke out in 2013 and again in July this year?

We shall have total peace in South Sudan. Many countries, including our neighbours, have gone through what we are experiencing. We are not exceptional. In our case, the greedy people who think they can take power using a wrong process have no future. The war in South Sudan is meaningless because you can get power without killing anybody. Those who have fought this country since 2013 made a miscalculation.

We knew that [fighting] was going to happen. I talked to some of these people involved in the fighting. I did not only talk to [Riek] Machar but also reached out to various people involved. I talked to Pagan Amum, I talked to Taban Deng Alol and others. I was a governor and I told Taban Deng in my house that I wished we did not take South Sudanese back to the situation they had gone through. But it seemed they had done their calculations. I sat with Pagan in his office for almost three hours. In that meeting, he told me that Salva Kiir was not going to contest for elections [in 2014; which were postponed]. I asked him who told him and he said Deng had given him the information. I told him that Deng and Kiir were not institutions and if Kiir were not going to contest, he would have called an SPLA/M meeting.

I told him that I was not interested in war, not because I was a coward, but because we had brought our people out of war and it was unnecessary to take them back to the old situation.

But these miscalculations are coming to an end. Deng has realised that war cannot take us anywhere. Even Machar of those days is not Machar of today. Since Machar left Juba, his [current] picture has not been seen.

Q: Are you saying he is sick and that’s why there is no new picture of him?

I’m not with him. Whatever is being said, they are doing it on his behalf. But once again, I want to say that he left Juba with the same miscalculation he had in 2013. Recently, when he was around Yei, Khartoum wanted to evacuate him but he instead asked for ammunition and guns to fight. We were tracking him after he ran to DR Congo.

But since he is out, there will be no insecurity. He thinks his only obstacle is the Dinka. Never trust someone who believes in tribalism. They have declared war and think they can use AK-47 [rifles] to take power. They did it in 2013 and they also attempted it in July this year.

Q: Could you tell us what happened and how the fighting started in July at the presidential palace?

The day before fighting started, his [Machar’s] people attacked a security point and killed four of our soldiers. The president then called us and he wanted the incident investigated. After the meeting, we left and he was supposed to call Machar and vice president Wani Yigga to brief him about the outcome of the meeting. But we had got information that Machar was planning to cause chaos. He knew that during the day, president Kiir maintained at least 30 bodyguards and so he came with more than 500 soldiers.

He thought after taking over J1 (State House), his troops in Jebel would come in and take over power. The first victim of the fighting was a Nuer, a bodyguard of President Salva Kiir. He eavesdropped what they were discussing and was shot and killed. I was about a kilometre away closing a media workshop. When the fighting started, president Kiir called and asked where I was. I wanted to go to J1 but my car was badly hit. I later managed to reach. Machar was intending to carry out a palace coup. I learnt that he had entered the meeting room with a pistol.

Q: But he says you wanted to kill him.

That’s not true. Killing people is not a good culture. But it’s us who took him to his compound. We were told by the president to take him to his compound and we did that. If we wanted to kill him, we would have done it but why kill him?

Q: You keep saying the situation is calm but there are reports of people not moving at night because of a curfew.

The government in 2013 declared a curfew. But people are free to move at night. There is also an issue of thieves who have acquired guns from the neighbouring countries and want to disturb people at night. They are not only South Sudanese. We deploy to stop these elements from disturbing our people.

Q: SPLA is an army born out of a cause to free yourselves from oppression by Khartoum but you are split into two groups based on tribal differences. Isn’t this betrayal to the cause you fought for?

Those who are fighting are South Sudanese and they will not be enemies forever. Machar did it in 1991. He left the struggle but later came back. He is not alone. Some have realised that Machar’s business is not viable.

Q: Why are you against the deployment of the regional task force?

You are aware that the government has accepted the regional force to come. But there are technicalities that need to be considered. First, what is their mandate? Who are they coming to protect? Where will they stay? Even the opposition is not asking for the force. Bringing the force here without proper mandate can cause problems.

Q: Are you saying you were forced to accept the deployment of the regional protection forces?

Yes. We don’t know why they are coming. What are they coming to do?

Q: But there is an issue of refugees in the UN camps.

There are many free things in the camp. There is free food. They are not just displaced. During the day, they are working outside but they go back at night.

Q: Is it true those in the camps are mostly Machar supporters?

They are politically motivated waiting for Machar to come back. No one wants to harm them. They should come out and live freely.

Q: There are allegations of corruption and accusations that SPLA and government officials are benefiting from the war.

These reports are [aimed at] character assassination. They should bring evidence to show how we are benefiting. We are ready to be investigated. If they want to know the properties I own, I will show them. I’m a human being and I do business. I sell gum arabic. Do they want it?

Q: What about reports that senior SPLA officers are maintaining this instability because they are benefiting.

That’s not true.

Q: Machar is now in Khartoum and there has been that mutual suspicion between South Sudan and Khartoum. Do you think he can be armed and start fighting you?

If someone from Uganda kills me, I would wonder why. If someone from Kenya killed me, I would also wonder why. But I would not wonder if someone from Khartoum kills me. We were one country.

But the South took all the resources after we separated. [Take an example] When someone was asked who his enemy was, he brought his wife. Again when asked who his friend was, he brought the same wife. He said she is his friend when they plan and do things together and she is his enemy when they disagree and quarrel.

The Republic of Sudan [Khartoum] is against us because we took all the resources. They want to take our land. We have refused to be Muslims. Machar is in Khartoum but he will realise it was a miscalculation and will come back. By the way, if you stood with Machar for president; we would vote you, not him even if you are not South Sudanese. Never trust someone whose actions are all the time based on tribe.