From: Berhane Habtemariam (Berhane.Habtemariam@gmx.de)
Date: Tue Jul 06 2010 - 09:05:14 EDT
Interview with Rwandan President Paul Kagame
'We Are Far from Exhausting Our Potential'
07/06/2010
In a SPIEGEL interview, Rwandan President Paul Kagame, 52, discusses the
failures of the African elite, the trouble with development aid coming from
the West and the problems his country has had reconciling after the 1994
genocide.
SPIEGEL: Mr. President, right now the soccer World Cup is taking place and
the world is looking to Africa in a way seldom seen before. Why is it that
50 years after independence, many African countries are still lagging so far
behind?
Kagame: It is true, we are lagging behind. Unfortunately. There are a number
of reasons for it -- historical, cultural, and not least, reasons that we
ourselves have caused. We are far from exhausting our potential and
resources.
SPIEGEL: Why is it that statesmen who are not corrupt and do not line their
own pockets are still the exception in Africa?
Kagame: I admit, this is a problem. But I can not absolve the West
completely of guilt. There were corrupt leaders, and the West not only stood
firmly behind them, but also sometimes encouraged even more corruption.
SPIEGEL: China, which has since become an industrial power, now appears to
be growing into a role in Africa formerly held by the West. Do the Chinese
have a more honest interest in Africa?
Kagame: To me it is not a question of whether China or the West has more
honest intentions with us. It is about something else. Why don't we talk
about how we can get on our feet on our own? We do not always want to be the
victims and to serve as a battleground for foreign interests.
SPIEGEL: Your continent has long been comfortable in the role of the
dependent.
Kagame: That is true. We complain about the Chinese, who take our natural
resources, pollute the environment and leave nothing behind. Or about the
West which, although it does not pollute the environment, also leaves
nothing behind. We must take stock of our potential and resources and
consider how we want to use them ourselves -- and also how we can do
business with China or the West without getting exploited.
SPIEGEL: Most of your presidential colleagues in Africa are pleased with the
billions of euros from the West that are flowing to the continent. In
Rwanda, you impose tight restrictions on Western donors. What do you have
against aid from abroad?
Kagame: The instances of aid that we have criticized were always those which
created dependencies. Aid makes itself superfluous if it is working well.
Good aid takes care to provide functioning structures and good training that
enables the recipient country to later get by without foreign aid.
Otherwise, it is bad aid .
SPIEGEL: . which has become the unfortunate norm in Africa.
Kagame: Yes, because the West is anything but altruistic. I often wonder why
the West is much more interested in aid deliveries than in fair trade, for
example. The fair exchange of goods would place far more money into the
hands of the affected people than relief operations. I do not want to be
cynical, but if developing nations are kept backward by being told, again
and again, you belong to the poor and you are there, where you actually
belong, then nothing will change.
SPIEGEL: Do any countries serve as role models for you on the path to
becoming a modern state?
Kagame: There are things I admire, for example, about South Korea or
Singapore. I admire their history, their development and how intensively
they have invested in their people and in technology. It was not so long ago
that they were at the same level of development as we are. Today, they are
far ahead of us.
SPIEGEL: There are fair elections in South Korea. In your case, however,
opposition leader Victoire Ingabire is under house arrest, newspapers are
forbidden and parties are not permitted. That is not what democracy looks
like.
Kagame: The Rwandan Media High Council is responsible for the banning of the
two newspapers. And it is an independent institution. One of the newspapers
compared me with Adolf Hitler, and another spread false gossip stories. To
be honest, I would have banned the papers long ago. Incidentally, editors
are also fired in Europe if they write nonsense.
SPIEGEL: But no unpopular newspapers are banned. And in Rwanda, leading
opposition politicians are imprisoned.
Kagame: Victoire Ingabire's deputy, who returned to Rwanda from exile in
January, was actively involved in the genocide of the Tutsi .
SPIEGEL: . at least 800,000 Tutsis were killed in 1994 by members of the
Hutu majority.
Kagame: He was traveling under an assumed name, he has since admitted his
involvement in the genocide, and a court convicted him. And yet the
international media is nevertheless still writing, as before, that
opposition leaders are being arrested in Rwanda.
SPIEGEL: You placed your most dangerous challenger, Victoire Ingabire, under
house arrest.
Kagame: We now know that she has supported the Rwandan Hutu militias, who
are now fighting in East Congo and are designated by the UN as terrorists.
We have evidence that she was there and that she transferred money to them.
SPIEGEL: You are expected to be safely re-elected in early August. You no
longer have any serious challengers.
Kagame: I am not responsible for a strong opposition. After all, we have a
special past: almost 1 million victims in a hundred days of genocide. We
want to put the country back on its feet. And we have a different way of
dealing with that than others.
SPIEGEL: How much progress have you made with reconstruction?
Kagame: Today's Rwanda is a different country than it was 16 years ago -- in
almost every respect. The people have enough to eat, there is health
insurance and schools. Earlier, we had 800,000 school pupils, but today 2.3
million children are learning in primary schools, free of charge. The
private sector is growing. A lot has happened. We give the people jobs and
food, which also gives them a sense of dignity. If they have nothing to eat,
then democracy is meaningless to them. Democracy holds little appeal for
people who are struggling to survive.
SPIEGEL: With those arguments, you open the door to abuse of power. Many
African potentates have used the same lines to justify their dictatorships.
Kagame: Why does the Western notion of democracy also have to be the right
one for us? The difference is that the West has institutions that can punish
the misconduct of individuals. What drove Rwanda and Africa into decline was
the fact that certain people weren't held accountable. When we move to make
corrupt mayors or officers answer to the courts, people always immediately
say that we are repressive. But should we allow these people to continue to
get away with it?
SPIEGEL: Even today, your country still doesn't appear to have completely
reconciled following the tragedy of 1994.
Kagame: Reconciliation takes time. Sometimes many decades, as the example of
Europe shows. It is hard work. How do you deal, for example, with people who
are still moving freely despite the fact that they should actually be
punished? Of the four categories of offenders that we introduced in 1994,
from supporters to the instigators and masterminds of the genocide, we have
already eliminated the two most harmless categories -- we do not want to
pursue these people any further. Of course, it is difficult for the families
of the victims of the genocide to accept that.
SPIEGEL: Are you also dealing with your own personal history through your
policies?
Kagame: My story is one of suffering and endurance. I was three and a half
when we had to flee because of pogroms against the Tutsi from Rwanda. I grew
up in a refugee camp in Uganda, and I lived there for 30 years. That shapes
one's character. I constantly asked myself: Why is this misery and hunger
returning to us in the camp? And why does the rest of the world remain
quiet? I had to fight hard for everything. I wanted to get out. I want to
take my destiny into my own hands and escape the vicious cycle of
retaliatory violence. This struggle has shaped who I am to this day.
Interview conducted by Horand Knaup
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