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From: Berhane Habtemariam (Berhane.Habtemariam@gmx.de)
Date: Thu Oct 07 2010 - 12:10:52 EDT
Sudanese Opposition Leader Ali Mahmoud Hassanein Talks to Asharq Al-Awsat
07/10/2010
By Mohammad Ali Salih
Washington, Asharq Al-Awsat - A prominent Sudanese opposition leader,
currently touring the US, predicted yesterday that if Southern Sudan chooses
independence in the scheduled January referendum, Sudanese President Omar
al-Bashir will order his troops to occupy the oil fields in the South.
Ali Mahmoud Hassanein, Deputy Chairman of the Unionist Democratic Party
(UDP), a leading political party in the Sudan, in an interview with Asharq
Al-Awsat in Washington, launched a fiery attack on al-Bashir, describing him
as "a dictator and a criminal"
Hassanein denied seeking US help - official or private - to topple
al-Bashir, as some of his critics have claimed. However, he agreed with some
US groups that al-Bashir should surrender to the International Criminal
Court (ICC), which has accused him of committing war crimes and genocide in
Darfur, western Sudan.
The following is the full text of the interview:
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What is the purpose of your visit to the US?
[Hassanein] I am currently living in Britain, and from there I started a
campaign to establish a broad coalition whose primary objective is to topple
the government of Omar al-Bashir. We believe that al-Bashir is a dictator
and a criminal. This is a front that brings together all Sudanese,
regardless of their past or present political affiliations. During the third
week of this month, we will convene a comprehensive conference in London to
develop a specific program with specific objectives. I have toured parts of
Britain, and I am currently here in the US to gain support for this new
front.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Are you planning to ask the US government for help or
American private organizations?
[Hassanein] No. We only depend on the Sudanese. This is a Sudanese movement
and we want to distance it from any foreign influence.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Certain groups in Washington have been calling for the
arrest of President al-Bashir, following the arrest warrant issued against
him by the International Criminal Court (ICC) for genocide and crimes
against humanity. This seems similar to your mandate. Are you intending to
cooperate with these groups, on this issue at least?
[Hassanein] Of course, so long as we want al-Bashir to stand trial, we
support those who support this. However these are details that will be
discussed in the forthcoming general conference that will take place in
London. The conference will begin by choosing a name for our movement, and
then we will confirm its objectives, tools, and details.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] You are the Deputy Chairman of the Unionist Democratic
Party (UDP), whose religious and political leader, Sayed Mohammad Osman
al-Mirghani, is cooperating with al-Bashir. What does al-Mirghani think
about your campaign against al-Bashir?
[Hassanein] I have disagreed with al-Mirghani on this subject and I disagree
with him now, and I say this publicly. I disagree with the unfortunate
situation that the political parties in Sudan have reached. Now here I am
declaring my opposition to his cooperation with al-Bashir. One of the
reasons for establishing our movement was our belief that the traditional
Sudanese political parties have failed to reflect the aspirations of the
Sudanese people. They have been inflicted by inept leadership, and have been
dominated by certain families. This doesn't just apply to the UDP, but all
other traditional political parties as well.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Recently, leaders from your own party, the UDP, have
called for your resignation because of your stance on the ICC, which is
contrary to the UDP position. What is your opinion of this?
[Hassanein] Why would I resign from a party that I have supported all my
life? Why would I leave the oldest and most significant party, in the
history of Sudan? I am a Unionist, I always have been, and I will die a
Unionist.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Some leaders in the ruling party, the National Congress
Party (NCP), have criticized you for leading a Sudanese political movement
from outside Sudan - conducting your operations from Britain and America -
likening this to "hotel activism." What is your response to this?
[Hassanein] Last year, I was in Sudan and was arrested by al-Bashir's
security forces. This was not only because of my deep-rooted opposition to
the regime, but also because of my stand on the ICC. Before I was released,
I was visited by senior security officials who, in a clear and direct
manner, threatened to kill me if I continued my political stand. Therefore,
some of my friends and relatives advised me to leave Sudan, and that is why
I am now living in London.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Why are you calling for al-Bashir to surrender to the ICC?
[Hassanein] Firstly, he committed war crimes and genocide in Darfur.
Secondly, the Sudanese judicial system is controlled by al-Bashir. How can
this system try him at all, let alone fairly?
Thirdly, there are three separate branches of government in Sudan;
executive, legislative and judiciary. But these three branches, and the
whole country in general, are controlled by a network of security and
intelligence agencies.
Finally, the Sudanese constitution calls for the trial of the president only
in the case of high treason, and not for genocide or war crimes. In that
respect, we believe that al-Bashir is acting in accordance with a
constitution that he and his advisers wrote themselves.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Recently, the US has decreased its pressure on al-Bashir,
and last week President Barack Obama, attending an UN-sponsored conference
on Sudan, implied that the relationship between the two countries is
improving. Would you describe this as being unhelpful to your campaign
against al-Bashir?
[Hassanein] How can the US offer concessions to al-Bashir, whilst he is
captive [to US sanctions] at the same time? The US is imposing punishments
on al-Bashir, and not vice-versa. The US has been sanctioning al-Bashir ever
since he came to power (1989), when he declared his "Islamic Civilization
Project". This clearly endangered US interests in the region, and the entire
world. After the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA) in 2005, which was
sponsored by the US, it became clear that the US wanted Southern Sudan to
secede. So, now as the referendum in the South is getting closer and closer,
the US, as expected, is appeasing al-Bashir so that he will not endanger the
new state in the South. But, I believe this appeasement is temporary.
Also, don't forget that the US didn't declare the last general elections in
Sudan (last April) illegal and unacceptable, although they claimed the
elections were not free and fair. Why? Because the US is interested in
appeasing al-Bashir, for the sake of the South's secession.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Do Sudan's Islamists want the South to secede?
[Hassanein] I will give you two examples:
Firstly, recently "Rabitat Ulama'a Alsudan" (Sudan's Islamic Scholars
Association) issued a statement; not regarding a united or divided Sudan,
but claiming that the leaders of Sudan's Peoples Liberation Movement (SPLM)
are infidels. The statement called on the Muslims not to cooperate with
them, eat with them, sell to them, buy from them or rent houses to them.
Secondly, also recently, "Jama'at Ansar Alsunna" (Followers of the Sunnah)
issued a statement; again not regarding free and fair elections, or
referendums, but stating that the idea of elections and a referendum was,
basically, secular, Western, and non-Islamic. If it was inevitable that
elections were to be held, they should exclude women, seculars and
non-Muslims. Anyone who rejects this should be considered an 'infidel', and
war should be declared upon them.
So, these two examples highlight the extreme Islamic beliefs of these
people.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Does al-Bashir himself support the secession of the South?
[Hassanein] Before he came to power (1989), when his mentor, Dr. Hassan
al-Turabi, cooperated with the military government of President Jafar
Nimeiri (1969-1985), al-Turabi declared that the Islamists' fundamental and
main goal was a Sudan ruled by Islamic Sharia [law]. They encouraged Nimeiri
to declare Sharia laws, and after Nimeiri was toppled, during the second
democratic era (1985-1989), the Islamists participated in negotiations
between the Northerners and Southerners. However, all the Islamists talked
about was [Islamic] Sharia law.
In 1989, all the Northern political parties agreed to hold a conference,
which was designed to include the Southerners, with the intention of
agreeing a ceasefire. However, before the conference date, al-Bashir led a
military coup (1989) that took over the country. He dissolved all political
parties, and declared Jihad on our Southern brothers. In 1992, in Frankfurt,
Germany, al-Bashir's representatives, and Southern leaders, signed an
agreement stipulating a ceasefire, and the self-determination of the South.
So, it has been clear throughout the years, that the Islamists have not been
interested in Sudan's unity. Rather, their main goal has been the
predominance of Sharia rule, if not in the whole of Sudan, then in the
North.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] Will al-Bashir accept the results of the forthcoming
referendum in the South?
[Hassanein] Don't forget the new and highly significant factor in these
developments: the discovery and production of oil in the South. Al-Bashir
and his followers have changed their priorities: from ideology to business,
and from the Sharia to oil. They have become largely preoccupied with oil
companies, pipelines, refineries, explorations, exports and revenues.
Initially, al-Bashir denied the South its fair share of oil revenues.
However, after the CPA agreement with the South in 2005, he reluctantly, and
because of foreign pressure, accepted a fair share for the South.
Now, as the referendum in the South is getting closer, Al-Bashir is worried
more about the oil than about the Sharia. Ninety percent of Sudan's export
revenues are from oil. Without oil, Al-Bashir's government will be bankrupt;
and will eventually disappear, because I believe that an economic fall
precedes a political fall.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] What do you think will happen if the South opts to secede?
[Hassanein] Now, before the referendum, al-Bashir is secretly doing all that
he can to obstruct the referendum, if not to cancel it. Of course he is now
declaring that the referendum will take place on time and that he will
accept its results. But don't believe these people, I know them very well.
There are two possibilities: either the Southerners will choose secession,
or, if the referendum is cancelled or if its results are questioned, they
will declare unilateral independence (from their parliament in Juba). In
both cases, Al-Bashir will declare, on TV in a national address to the
nation, that the oil fields are in danger and that Sudan's national security
is at stake. He will then declare that he has ordered the armed forces to
take control of the oil fields.
On the other hand, the newly established Southern state will declare that
the oil fields are part of its new country, and thus they will be defended.
Mind you, this is not just a scenario; this is an actual plan that has been
implemented in the South since the 2005 CPA. The Southerners have been busy
purchasing tanks, planes, guns and ammunitions. They have known all along
that al-Bashir will not let the oil fields go.
[Asharq Al-Awsat] How would you respond to those who say that this is an
extremely pessimistic scenario?
[Hassanein] This is what will happen. Not only will there be renewed war in
the South, but, also in Darfur, the east and other parts of Sudan.
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