webmaster
© Copyright DEHAI-Eritrea OnLine, 1993-2010
All rights reserved
From: wolda002@umn.edu
Date: Wed Dec 01 2010 - 00:23:20 EST
November 30, 2010 <http://www.democracynow.org/>
Noam Chomsky: WikiLeaks Cables Reveal "Profound Hatred for Democracy on the
Part of Our Political Leadership" [image: Chomsky]
In a national broadcast exclusive interview, we speak with world-renowned
political dissident and linguist Noam Chomsky about the release of more than
250,000 secret U.S. State Department cables by WikiLeaks. In 1971, Chomsky
helped government whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg release the Pentagon Papers,
a top-secret internal U.S. account of the Vietnam War. Commenting on the
revelations that several Arab leaders are urging the United States to attack
Iran, Chomsky says, "latest polls show] Arab opinion holds that the major
threat in the region is Israel, that’s 80 percent; the second threat is the
United States, that’s 77 percent. Iran is listed as a threat by 10 percent,"
Chomsky says. "This may not be reported in the newspapers, but it’s
certainly familiar to the Israeli and U.S. governments and the ambassadors.
What this reveals is the profound hatred for democracy on the part of our
political leadership." [includes rush transcript]
Watch Part II of this
Conversation.<http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2010/11/30/noam_chomsky_on_the_economy_us_midterm_elections_climate_change_haiti_and_more>
Filed under WikiLeaks<http://www.democracynow.org/tags/wikileaks_collateral_murder_video>
Email to a friend <http://www.democracynow.org/email/story/11428>
Help <http://www.democracynow.org/pages/help/streaming>
Printer-friendly
version<http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/noam_chomsky_wikileaks_cables_reveal_profound#>
Purchase DVD/CD <http://www.democracynow.org/store/show/2010/11/30>
LISTEN
WATCH <http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/stream>
Real Video Stream<http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2010/nov/video/dnB20101130a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=00:25:58>
Real Audio Stream<http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2010/nov/audio/dn20101130.ra&proto=rtsp&start=00:25:58>
MP3 Download <http://traffic.libsyn.com/democracynow/dn2010-1130-1.mp3>
More… <http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/stream>
*Noam Chomsky <http://www.democracynow.org/appearances/noam_chomsky>*,
author and Institute Professor Emeritus at MIT, where he taught for over
half a century. He is author of dozens of books. His most recent is *Hopes
and Prospects*
Related stories
- "We Have Not Seen Anything Yet": Guardian Editor Says Most Startling
WikiLeaks Cables Still To Be
Released<http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/30/we_have_not_seen_anything_yet>
- U.S. Facing Global Diplomatic Crisis Following Massive WikiLeaks
Release of Secret Diplomatic
Cables<http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/29/us_facing_global_diplomatic_crisis_following>
- Killing Reconciliation: Military Raids, Backing of Corrupt Government
Undermining Stated US Goals in
Afghanistan<http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/29/killing_reconciliation_military_raids_backing_of>
- Part II: WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange on Iraq War Logs, "Tabloid
Journalism" and Why WikiLeaks is "Under
Siege"<http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/26/continued_wikileaks_founder_julian_assange>
- WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange on Iraq War Logs, "Tabloid Journalism"
and Why WikiLeaks Is "Under
Siege"<http://www.democracynow.org/2010/10/26/wikileaks_founder_julian_assange_on_iraq>
Rush Transcript This transcript is available free of charge. However,
donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing
on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution.
*Donate <http://www.democracynow.org/contribute/donate_money> * -
$25<http://www.democracynow.org/cart/add_donation?donation[type]=amt&donation[amt_selected]=25>,
$50<http://www.democracynow.org/cart/add_donation?donation[type]=amt&donation[amt_selected]=50>,
$100<http://www.democracynow.org/cart/add_donation?donation[type]=amt&donation[amt_selected]=100>,
More... <http://www.democracynow.org/get_involved/donate>
*AMY GOODMAN:* We have lost David Leigh, investigations editor from *The
Guardian*. He was speaking to us from the busy newsroom there. *The Guardian
* is doing an ongoing series of pieces and exposes on these documents. They
are being released slowly by the various news organizations, from *The
Guardian* in London, to *Der Spiegel* in Germany, to *El Pais* in Spain, to
the *New York Times* here in the United States.. For reaction to the
WikiLeaks documents, we’re joined by world renowned political dissident and
linguist Noam Chomsky, Professor Emeritus at Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, author of over a hundred books including his latest *Hopes and
Prospects*. Forty years ago, Noam and Howard Zinn helped government
whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg edit and release the Pentagon Papers that
top-secret internal U.S. history of the Vietnam War.
Noam Chomsky joins us from Boston. It is good to have you back again, Noam.
Why don’t we start there. Before we talk about WikiLeaks, what was your
involvement in the Pentagon Papers? I don’t think most people know about
this.
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* Dan and I were friends. Tony Russo, who also who prepared
them and helped leak them. I got advanced copies from Dan and Tony and there
were several people who were releasing them to the press. I was one of them.
Then I- along with Howard Zinn as you mentioned- edited a volume of essays
and indexed the papers.
*AMY GOODMAN:* So explain how, though, how it worked. I always think this is
important- to tell this story- especially for young people. Dan Ellsberg-
Pentagon official, top-secret clearance- gets this U.S. involvement in
Vietnam *history* out of his safe, he Xerox’s it and then how did you get
your hands on it? He just directly gave it to you?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* From Dan Ellsberg and Tony Russo, who had done the Xeroxing
and the preparation of the material.
*AMY GOODMAN:* How much did you edit?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* Well, we did not modify anything. The papers were not
edited. They were in their original form. What Howard Zinn and I did was-
they came out in four volumes- we prepared a fifth volume, which was
critical essays by many scholars on the papers, what they mean, the
significance and so on. And an index, which is almost indispensable for
using them seriously. That’s the fifth volume in the Beacon Press series.
*AMY GOODMAN:* So you were then one of the first people to see the Pentagon
Papers?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* Outside of Dan Ellsberg and Tony Russo, yes. I mean, there
were some journalists who may have seen them, I am not sure.
*AMY GOODMAN:* What are your thoughts today? For example, we just played
this clip of New York republican congress member Peter King who says
WikiLeaks should be declared a foreign terrorist organization.
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* I think that is outlandish. We should understand- and the
Pentagon Papers is another case in point- that one of the major reasons for
government secrecy is to protect the government from its own population. In
the Pentagon Papers, for example, there was one volume- the negotiations
volume- which might have had a bearing on ongoing activities and Daniel
Ellsberg withheld that. That came out a little bit later. If you look at the
papers themselves, there are things Americans *should* have known that
others did not want them to know. And as far as I can tell, from what I’ve
seen here, pretty much the same is true. In fact, the current leaks are-
what I’ve seen, at least- primarily interesting because of what they tell us
about how the diplomatic service works.
*AMY GOODMAN:* The documents’ revelations about Iran come just as the
Iranian government has agreed to a new round of nuclear talks beginning next
month. On Monday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the cables
vindicate the Israeli position that Iran poses a nuclear threat. Netanyahu
said, "Our region has been hostage to a narrative that is the result of
sixty years of propaganda, which paints Israel as the greatest threat. In
reality, leaders understand that that view is bankrupt. For the first time
in history, there is agreement that Iran is the threat. If leaders start
saying openly what they have long been saying behind closed doors, with can
make a real breakthrough on the road to peace," Netanyahu said. Secretary of
State Hillary Clinton also discussed Iran at her news conference in
Washington. This is what she said:
*HILARY CLINTON:* I think that it should not be a surprise to anyone that
Iran is a source of great concern, not only in the United States. What comes
through in every meeting that I have- anywhere in the world- is a concern
about Iranian actions and intentions. So, if anything, any of the comments
that are being reported on allegedly from the cables confirm the fact that
Iran poses a very serious threat in the eyes of many of her neighbors and a
serious concern far beyond her region. That is why the international
community came together to pass the strongest possible sanctions against
Iran. It did not happen because the United States said, "Please, do this for
us!" It happened because countries- once they evaluated the evidence
concerning Iran’s actions and intentions- reached the same conclusion that
the United States reached: that we must do whatever we can to muster the
international community to take action to prevent Iran from becoming a
nuclear weapons state. So if anyone reading the stories about these, uh,
alleged cables thinks carefully what they will conclude is that the concern
about Iran is well founded, widely shared, and will continue to be at the
source of the policy that we pursue with like-minded nations to try to
prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.
*AMY GOODMAN:* That was Secretary to Hillary Clinton yesterday at a news
conference. I wanted to get your comment on Clinton, Netanyahu’s comment,
and the fact that Abdullah of Saudi Arabia- the King who is now getting back
surgery in the New York- called for the U.S. to attack Iran. Noam Chomsky?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* That essentially reinforces what I said before, that the
main significance of the cables that are being released so far is what they
tell us about Western leadership. So Hillary Clinton and Benjamin Netanyahu
surely know of the careful polls of Arab public opinion. The Brookings
Institute just a few months ago released extensive polls of what Arabs think
about Iran. The results are rather striking. They show the Arab opinion
holds that the major threat in the region is Israel- that’s 80. The second
major threat is the United States- that’s 77. Iran is listed as a threat by
10%.
With regard to nuclear weapons, rather remarkably, a majority- in fact, 57–say
that the region would have a positive effect in the region if Iran
*had*nuclear weapons. Now, these are not small numbers. 80,
77, say the U.S. and Israel are the major threat. 10 say Iran is the major
threat. This may not be reported in the newspapers here- it is in England-
but it’s certainly familiar to the Israeli and U.S. governments, and to the
ambassadors. But there is not a word about it anywhere. What that reveals is
the profound hatred for democracy on the part of our political leadership
and the Israeli political leadership. These things aren’t even to be
mentioned. This seeps its way all through the diplomatic service. The cables
to not have any indication of that.
When they talk about Arabs, they mean the Arab dictators, not the
population, which is *overwhelmingly* opposed to the conclusions that the
analysts here- Clinton and the media- have drawn. There’s also a minor
problem; that’s the major problem. The minor problem is that we don’t know
from the cables what the Arab leaders think and say. We know what was
selected from the range of what they say. So there is a filtering process.
We don’t know how much it distorts the information. But there is no question
that what is a radical distortion is- or, not even a distortion, a *
reflection*–of the concern that the dictators are what matter. The
population does not matter, even if it’s overwhelmingly opposed to U.S.
policy.
There are similar things elsewhere, such as keeping to this region. One of
the most interesting cables was a cable from the U.S. ambassador in Israel
to Hillary Clinton, which described the attack on Gaza- which we should call
the U.S./Israeli attack on Gaza- December 2008. It states correctly there
had been a truce. It does not add that during the truce- which was really
not observed by Israel- but during the truce, Hamas scrupulously observed it
according to the Israeli government, not a single rocket was fired. That’s
an omission. But then comes a straight line: it says that in December 2008,
Hamas renewed rocket firing and therefore Israel had to attack in
self-defense. Now, the ambassador *surely* is aware that there must be
somebody in the American Embassy who reads the Israeli press- the mainstream
Israeli press- in which case the embassy is *surely* aware that it is
exactly the opposite: Hamas was calling for a renewal of the cease-fire.
Israel considered the offer and rejected it, preferring to bomb rather than
have security. Also omitted is that while Israel never observed the
cease-fire- it maintained the siege in violation of the truce agreement- on
November 4, the U.S. election 2008, the Israeli army invaded Gaza, killed
half a dozen Hamas militants, which did lead to an exchange of fire in which
all the casualties, as usual, were Palestinian. Then in December, Hamas-
when the truce officially ended- Hamas called for renewing it. Israel
refused, and the U.S. and Israel chose to launch the war. What the embassy
reported is a *gross* falsification and a very significant one since- since
it has to do the justification for the murderous attack- which means either
the embassy hasn’t a clue to what is going on or else they’re lying
outright.
*AMY GOODMAN:* And the latest report that just came out- from Oxfam, from
Amnesty International, and other groups- about the effects of the siege on
Gaza? What’s happening right now?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* A siege is an act of war. If anyone insists on that, it is
Israel. Israel launched two wars- '56 and ’67- in part on grounds its access
to the outside world was very partially restricted. That very partial siege
they considered an act of war and justification for- well, one of several
justifications- for what they called "preventive"- or if you like,
preemptive- war. So they understand that perfectly well and the point is
correct. The siege is a criminal act, in the first place. The Security
Council has called on Israel to lift it, and others have. It's designed to-
as Israeli officials have have stated- to keep the people of Gaza to minimal
level of existence. They do not want to kill them all off because that would
not look good in international opinion. As they put it, "to keep them on a
diet." This justification, this began very shortly after the official
Israeli withdrawal. There was an election in January 2006 after the
*only*free election in the Arab world- carefully monitored, recognized
to be free-
but it had a flaw. The wrong people won. Namely Hamas, which the U.S. did
not want it and Israel did not want. Instantly, within days, the U.S. and
Israel instituted harsh measures to punish the people of Gaza for voting the
wrong way in a free election.
The next step was that they- the U.S. and Israel- sought to, along with the
Palestinian Authority, try to carry out a military coup in Gaza to overthrow
the elected government. This failed- Hamas beat back the coup attempt. That
was July 2007. At that point, the siege got *much* harsher. In between come
in many acts of violence, shellings, invasions and so on and so forth. But
basically, Israel claims that when the truce was established in the summer
2008, Israel’s reason for not observing it and withdrawing the siege was
that there was an Israeli soldier- Gilad Shalit- who was captured at the
border. International commentary regards this as a terrible crime. Well,
whatever you think about it, capturing a soldier of an attacking army- and
the army was attacking Gaza- capturing a soldier of an attacking army isn’t
anywhere *near* the level of the crime of kidnapping civilians. Just one day
before the capture of Gilad Shalit at the border, Israeli troops had entered
Gaza, kidnapped two civilians- the Muammar Brothers- and spirited them
across the border. They’ve disappeared somewhere in Israel’s prison system,
which is where hundreds, maybe a thousand or so people are sometimes there
for years without charges. There are also secret prisons. We don’t know what
happens there.
This alone is a *far* worse crime than the kidnapping of Shalit. In fact,
you could argue there was a reason why was barely covered: Israel has been
doing this for years, in fact, decades. Kidnapping, capturing people,
hijacking ships, killing people, bringing them to Israel sometimes as
hostages for many years. So this is regular practice; Israel can do what it
likes. But the reaction here and the rest of the world of regarding the
Shalit kidnapping- well, not kidnapping, you don’t *kidnap* soldiers- the *
capture* of a soldier as an unspeakable crime, justification for maintaining
and murders siege... that’s disgraceful.
*AMY GOODMAN:* Noam, so you have Amnesty International, Oxfam, Save the
Children, and eighteen other aide groups calling on Israel to
unconditionally lift the blockade of Gaza. And you have in the WikiLeaks
release a U.S. diplomatic cable- provided to *The Guardian* by WikiLeaks-
laying out, "National human intelligence collection directive: Asking U.S.
personnel to obtain details of travel plans such as routes and vehicles used
by Palestinian Authority leaders and Hamas members." The cable demands,
"Biographical, financial, by metric information on key PA and Hamas leaders
and representatives to include the Young Guard inside Gaza, the West Bank,
and outside," it says.
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* That should not come as much of a surprise. Contrary to the
image that is portrayed here, the United States is not an honest broker. It
is a participant, a *direct* and *crucial* participant, in Israeli crimes,
both in the West Bank and in Gaza. The attack in Gaza was a clear case in
point: they used American weapons, the U.S. blocked cease-fire efforts, they
gave diplomatic support. The same is true of the daily ongoing crimes in the
West Bank, and we should not forget that. Actually, in Area C- the area of
the West Bank that Israel controls- conditions for Palestinians have been
reported by Save The Children to be worse than in Gaza. Again, this all
takes place on the basis of crucial, decisive, U.S., military, diplomatic,
economic support; and also ideological support- meaning, distorting the
situation, as is done again dramatically in the cables.
The siege itself is simply criminal. It is not only blocking desperately
needed aid from coming in, it also drives Palestinians away from the border.
Gaza is a small place, heavily and densely overcrowded. And Israeli fire and
attacks drive Palestinians away from the Arab land on the border, and also
drive fisherman in from Gaza into territorial waters. They compelled by
Israeli gunboats- all illegal, of course- to fish right near the shore where
fishing is almost impossible because Israel has destroyed the power systems
and sewage systems and the contamination is terrible. This is just a
stranglehold to punish people for being there and for insisting on voting
the wrong way. Israel decided, "We don’t want this anymore. Let’s just get
rid of them."
We should also remember, the U.S./Israeli policy- since Oslo, since the
early 1990’s- has been to separate Gaza from the West Bank. That is in
straight violation of the Oslo agreements, but it has been carried out
systematically, and it has a big effect. It means almost half the
Palestinian population would be cut off from any possible political
arrangement that would be made. It also means Palestine loses its access to
the outside world- Gaza *should* have and *can* have airports and seaports.
Right now, Israel has taken over about 40% of the West Bank. Obama’s latest
offers have granted even more, and they’re certainly planning to take more.
What is left is just canonized. It’s what the planner, Ariel Sharon called
Bantustans. And they’re in prison, too, as Israel takes over the Jordan
Valley and drives Palestinians out. So these are all crimes of a piece.
The Gaza siege is particularly grotesque because of the conditions under
which people are forced to live. I mean, if a young person in Gaza- student
in Gaza, let’s say- wants to study in a West Bank university, they can’t do
it. If it a person in Gaza needs advanced medical training or treatment from
an East Jerusalem hospital where the training is available, they can’t go!
Medicines are held back. It is a scandalous crime, all around.
*AMY GOODMAN:* What do you think the United States should do in this case?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* What the United States should do is very simple: it should
join the world. I mean, there are negotiations going on, supposedly. As they
are presented here, the standard picture is that the U.S. is an honest
broker trying to bring together two recalcitrant opponents- Israel and
Palestinian Authority. That’s just a charade.
If there were serious negotiations, they would be organized by some neutral
party and the U.S. and Israel would be on one side and the world would be on
the other side. And that is not an exaggeration. It should not be a secret
that there has long been an overwhelming international consensus on a
diplomatic, political solution. Everyone knows the basic outlines; some of
the details you can argue about. It includes everyone except the United
States and Israel. The U.S. has been blocking it for 35 years with
occasional departures- brief ones. It includes the Arab League. It includes
the Organization of Islamic States. which happens to include Iran. It
includes every relevant actor except the United States and Israel, the two
rejectionist states. So if there were to be negotiations that were serious,
that’s the way they would be organized. The actual negotiations barely reach
the level of comedy. The issue that’s being debated is a footnote, a
*minor*footnote: expansion of settlements. Of course it’s illegal. In
fact,
everything Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza is illegal. That hasn’t
even been controversial since 1967.
*AMY GOODMAN:* We’re going to come back to this in a minute. Noam Chomsky,
author and institute professor emeritus at MIT, as we talk about WikiLeaks
and the state of the world today.
[music break]
*AMY GOODMAN:* Our guest is Noam Chomsky, world-renowned dissident, author
of more than 100 books, speaking to us from Boston. Noam, you wrote a piece
after the midterm elections called *Outrage Misguided*. I want to read for
you now what Sarah Palin tweeted – the former Alaskan governor, of course,
and Republication vice presidential nominee. This is what she tweeted about
WikiLeaks. Rather, she put it on Facebook. She said, “First and foremost,
what steps were taken to stop WikiLeaks’ director Julian Assange from
distributing this highly-sensitive classified material, especially after he
had already published material not once but twice in the previous months?
Assange is not a journalist any more than the editor of the Al Qaeda’s new
English-language magazine “Inspire,” is a journalist. He is an anti-American
operative with blood on his hands. His past posting of classified documents
revealed the identity of more than 100 Afghan sources to the Taliban. Why
was he not pursued with the same urgency we pursue Al Qaeda and Taliban
leaders?” Noam Chomsky, your response?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* That’s pretty much what I would expect Sarah Palin to say. I
don’t know how much she understands, but I think we should pay attention to
what we learn from the leaks. What we learned, for example, is kinds of
things I’ve said. Perhaps the most dramatic revelation, or mention, is the
bitter hatred of democracy that is revealed both by the U.S. Government –
Hillary Clinton, others – and also by the diplomatic service.
To tell the world– well, they’re talking to each other- to pretend to each
other that the Arab world regards Iran as the major threat and wants the
U.S. to bomb Iran, is extremely revealing, when they know that approximately
80% of Arab opinion regards the U.S. and Israel as the major threat, 10%
regard Iran as the major threat, and a majority, 57%, think the region would
be better off with Iranian nuclear weapons as a kind of deterrent. That is
does not even enter. All that enters is what they claim has been said by
Arab dictators – brutal Arab dictators. That is what counts.
How representative this is of what they say, we don’t know, because we do
not know what the filtering is. But that’s a minor point. But the major
point is that the population is irrelevant. All that matters is the opinions
of the dictators that we support. If they were to back us, that is the Arab
world. That is a very revealing picture of the mentality of U.S. political
leadership and, presumably, the lead opinion, judging by the commentary
that’s appeared here, that’s the way it has been presented in the press as
well. It does not matter with the Arabs believe.
*AMY GOODMAN:* Your piece, *Outrage Misguided*. Back to the midterm
elections and what we’re going to see now. Can you talk about the tea party
movement?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* The Tea Party movement itself is, maybe 15% or 20% of the
electorate. It’s relatively affluent, white, nativist, you know, it has
rather traditional nativist streaks to it. But what is much more important,
I think, is the outrage. Over half the population says they more or less
supported it, or support its message. What people are thinking is extremely
interesting. I mean, overwhelmingly polls reveal that people are extremely
bitter, angry, hostile, opposed to everything.
The primary cause undoubtedly is the economic disaster. It’s not just the
financial catastrophe, it’s an economic disaster. I mean, in the
manufacturing industry, for example, unemployment levels are at the level of
the Great Depression. And unlike the Great Depression, those jobs are not
coming back. U.S. owners and managers have long ago made the decision that
they can make more profit with complicated financial deals than by
production. So finance – this goes back to the 1970s, mainly Reagan
escalated it, and onward- Clinton, too. The economy has been financialized.
Financial institutions have grown enormously in their share of corporate
profits. It may be something like a third, or something like that today. At
the same time, correspondingly, production has been exported. So you buy
some electronic device from China. China is an assembly plant for a
Northeast Asian production center. The parts and components come from the
more advanced countries – and from the United States, and the technology .
So yes, that’s a cheap place to assemble things and sell them back here.
Rather similar in Mexico, now Vietnam, and so on. That is the way to make
profits.
It destroys the society here, but that’s not the concern of the ownership
class and the managerial class. Their concern is profit. That is what drives
the economy. The rest of it is a fallout. People are extremely bitter about
it, but don’t seem to understand it. So the same people who are a majority,
who say that Wall Street is to blame for the current crisis, are voting
Republican. Both parties are deep in the pockets of Wall Street, but the
Republicans much more so than the Democrats.
The same is true on issue after issue. The antagonism to everyone is
extremely high – actually antagonism – the population doesn’t like
Democrats, but they hate Republicans even more. They’re against big
business. They’re against government. They’re against Congress. They’re
against science –
*AMY GOODMAN:* Noam, we only have thirty seconds. I wanted ask if you were
President Obama’s top adviser, what would you tell him to do right now?
*NOAM CHOMSKY:* I would tell him to do what FDR did when big business was
opposed to him. Help organize, stimulate public opposition and put through a
serious populist program, which can be done. Stimulate the economy. Don’t
give away everything to financiers. Push through real health reform. The
health reform that was pushed through may be a slight improvement but it
leaves some major problems untouched. If you’re worried about the deficit,
pay attention to the fact that it is almost all attributable to military
spending and this totally dysfunctional health program.
----[This List to be used for Eritrea Related News Only]----